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Ryan Sholin

Right. It's definitely a bit of a leap, in my view, to say that traditional news organizations are necessary for investigative/enterprise work at all levels, and we should finance it even if it isn't profitable.

I think some of the more interesting online-only news startups lately are the ones that are a) about politics and b) non-profits to some extent.

So you end up with MinnPost.com and Politico and a few others that take as given: "Big-J Journalism is good and necessary even if people don't say they want it" and they look for funding for it.

Seamus McCauley

Ryan -

Wow, quick response! :)

I agree, almost nothing really interesting online has started with anything you could call a business model (from Google down). If we find a future for journalism it won't emerge from the (IMO) wrong question "this is journalism, how can we pay for it?" but the right one - "what do people really want and value in journalism and how can we make sure they keep getting it?"

Charles Arthur

Ooooh nonononono! You must subscribe to the idea that papers must survive *anyway* for the Good Of Humankind: http://www.alternet.org/democracy/92284/?page=entire

Jeff Jarvis calls it 'curmudgeonly claptrap'..

You're right, though. What do people want to pay for?

Seamus McCauley

Charles -

That one's easy - people don't want to pay for anything*! But if we can at least work out what it is they want(ed) from printed newspapers in the first place, and keep an open mind about whether the answer to that question is really "investigative journalism", we might be onto something.

*Technically almost anything - some things become undesirable if cheap or free.

Nicolas.

Hi Seamus,

Reading your post, I ran a quick poll. First results: Fast food and football players are valued 3 times over journalists ;) (n=100, I'm working on more data)

Blogged it here: http://windowonthemedia.com/2008/07/fast-food-3-times-more-important-than-journalists/

Ron Davison

Seamus,
I wonder how you'd factor in externalities. A strong media keeps government and business honest and less able to exploit citizens and consumers. Perhaps consumers would see that at the point of purchase, but it’s not clear how. Maybe the trick is to somehow have a trickle down journalism: as (and if) your reporting or data collection or poll ripples out into various op-ed pieces, talking head discussions, and other media bits, you get a little piece of that. In such a world, good reporting would be well rewarded.

Ron Davison

Seamus,
After reading your post, I saw this ted talk by Clay Shirky. Among other things, he challenges the notion of professional journalists as a model that will survive.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/clay_shirky_on_institutions_versus_collaboration.html

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